Soon these devices will be largely home made for the really interested parties. It was published in the Federal Register yesterday, as Docket No. The length of pull is under the ATF suggested maximum length of 13.5 in. An objective definition of pistol brace would be: A device designed to aid a user in holding a large pistol with one hand, which extends no further than the user’s forearm when gripping the firearm normally, and which conforms to the user’s forearm. Submit comments in any of three ways (but do not submit the same comment multiple times or by more than one method). Beginning Friday the public can leave comments at Objective Factors for Classifying Weapons with … Debbie W. you voted for the first President to ever attempt a coup. ATF … They should pick on someone their own size like Global Corp. “Please note that the deadline for comments is January 4, 2021, meaning that they have only allowed all of 18 days for comments, not the usual 30 (or more).”. The ATF has posted their position on stabilizer braces in the Federal Register today, and opened the issue up for public comment for the next fourteen days.. In other words, there are no specific, “objective factors” for determining when a pistol equipped with a stabilizing brace will be considered a short-barrel rifle. The objective design features of the attached stabilizing brace itself are relevant to the classification of the assembled weapon, and include: The comparative function of the attachment when utilized as a stabilizing brace compared to its alternate use as a shouldering device; The design of the stabilizing brace compared to known shoulder stock designs; The amount of rear contact surface area of the stabilizing brace that can be used in shouldering the weapon as compared to the surface area necessary for use as a stabilizing brace; The material used to make the attachment that indicates whether the brace is designed and intended to be pressed against the shoulder for support, or actually used on the arm; Any shared or interchangeable parts with known shoulder stocks; and. Beginning Friday the public can leave comments at Objective Factors for Classifying Weapons with … Your email address will not be published. By starting with the assumption that length of pull — the distance from the trigger to the rear of the stock — is part of their test and matters, it appears the ATF considers all braces to be stocks until proven otherwise. brace for use as a shoulder stock makes a NFA firearm when attached to a pistol with a rifled barrel under 16 inches in length or a handgun with a smooth bore under 18 inches in length. Makes you wonder. . The ATF’s proposed rule for determining whether a firearm is a stabilizer-braced pistol or a short-barreled rifle is open for comments. — must have a length of pull of no more than 13.5 inches to avoid being considered an SBR. Ayn Rand was a mentally diseased America-hating and Christian-Hating piece of shit. Such fragile principles are not to be respected. You sound like the lint licker here….. What is astonishing is ATF has the prerogative, under ATF order 3310.4b, to admonish and have a person remove the offending feature that creates the NFA weapon. If the brace uses a spacer or other buffer attachment found on a rifle, then the ATF will consider the firearm a rifle or shotgun. The letter states that BATFE is “currently considering restricting one arm brace model owned by more than 700,000 Americans, despite it being no different in function from the more than ten arm brace designs already approved by … The ATF cease-and-desist letter sent to Q LLC on Aug. 3, 2020. Including length of pull is a biggy. What is needed are legal and political attacks upon the ATF leadership and individual transgressing agents and supervisors. Things like caliber, length of pull, accessories like scopes, forward hand grips, drum magazines and bipods may lead the ATF to deem your particular firearm to be an illegal SBR. Also, you can follow me on Instagram. But let’s be honest, do you think anyone at the ATF cares what the citizenry has to say about their edicts? But it is really worse than that. Haley Strategic Partners D3CRM Micro Chest Rig – Good for the Money? The powers that be get gunm insurance as a requirement to own a firearm, whew, thatd be somthing. This measurement is not necessarily determinative of the intent of the manufacturer but is used in making an evaluation of the firearm. The rifles may be off the books, but now there is a written record that states you know exactly who owns them. The ATF also considered the length of pull of … If that’s racist then the whole 4473 and background check is racist and since it’s a system it’s gotta be systemically racist. A firearm that is so heavy that it is impractical to fire or aim with one hand, or so long that it is difficult to balance the firearm to fire with one hand, is likely to be considered a rifle or shotgun. Submitting Comments You’d more likely be paranoid they’d come look you up and take away your customized Moisin Nagant and SKS. Back to length of pull. To any honest person there was 100,000’s of thousands of fraudulent votes in each battleground state. These items extend the distance between the trigger and the part of the weapon that contacts the shooter, whether it is a stock or stabilizing brace. Watch the video and shoutout your favorite executive agency that has violated this rule in the comments below!#FPC #2A #RKBA pic.twitter.com/6GaBYTElpc, — Firearms Policy Coalition (@gunpolicy) December 19, 2020. But none of that really matters because . ... DB15 AR PISTOL CARBINE LENGTH. On the one hand what we have seen instead is a lot of posturing for votes to the right or the left. So what is the ATF looking at when it comes to “stabilizing braces” and what are they deeming as NFA items? The ATF’s record is chock full of killing by way of incompetence, arrogance and enormous mistakes with zero accountability. Appropriate aim point when utilizing the attachment as a stabilizing brace. Required fields are marked *. Your favorite FPC attorney Bill Sack has an important message about the “Rule of Lenity.” Now what is the rule of lenity and how does it affect you? I am a NC Paramedic that just happens to be a gun enthusiast. In other words, firearms manufacturers have little to go on as far as revamping their designs. Vagueness doctrine rests on the due process clauses of the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments of the U.S. Constitution. And since one needs to register their info with ATF to make comments (I already have) I’m sure you didn’t bother. In other words, useless to those attempting to make something legal to sell and own. But if you use the Blade on a firearm that requires a large adapter of some sort, please make sure that you only use the dimples up to the point that you remain below the 13.5″ length. I got a letter back from atf. But searching regulations.gov may or may not turn up the docket. The subsequent deduction was that a length of pull of 13.5 inches must define a rifle. Thomas Jefferson owned slaves. As of 12/16/2020, a lot of things have come down the pipe when it comes to Pistol Braces/Stabilizers and the ATF/DOJ. Shoot On. You can find me on Facebook for upcoming reviews, online deals, and videos. Stabilizing Brace Design Features. Subjective evaluation is also subject to change over time, meaning that what was compliant yesterday may be noncompliant tomorrow. Well, in recent news, the ATF seems to be formalizing plans for a pistol brace ruling. In an ATF letter obtained by firearms legal expert, attorney Adam Kraut, the ATF is no longer allowing overall gun measurements to include “stabilizing braces” used to brace the gun against the user’s forearm, meaning that many popular guns like the AR pistol could be under their standard length and subject to the National Firearms Act (NFA) regulations if they have a … Indeed, that appears to be because ATF has no fixed standard. On an AR-15, the “length of pull” for the Blade is approximately 13.13″, so no issues there. …but not specifying … Darn phone keyboard…. Providing gun enthusiasts with a website that has meaningful, yet simple, gun and gear reviews since 2009. Weight and Length. With the stock (assuming you have a 16" barrel), the length of pull can be anything. Under Pressure, ATF Rescinds Pistol Brace Notice; 12/24/2020 06:16 AM | Chris Eger. ATF and DOJ to Rule in on Pistol Braces…What to Expect? What length of pull is permitted? That’s fancy language for we know it when we see it and we’ll let you know when we do. However, if large volumes of comments are being processed simultaneously, your comment may not be viewable for up to several weeks. Trumps orders? Further, ATF has consistently held that the overall length of 26 inches is the breaking point for concealability. They’ve zero interest in compliance. The Administrative Agencies shouldn’t have any control over individual’s choices or actions for non-commercial purposes; period. We are being honest actors, thinking rules, precedent, or laws will matter to dishonest actors. The ATF does not say how short a firearm’s LOP must be to be considered a pistol. . Federal eRulemaking Portal: www.regulations.gov. Or the Gun Walking scandals of George W Bush and Barrack Obama administrations, resulting in LEO and citizen deaths on both sides of the border. Any other feature of the brace that improves the weapon’s effectiveness from the shoulder-firing position without providing a corresponding benefit to the effectiveness of the stability and support provided by the brace’s use on the arm. She was against Social Security and Medicare when she was healthy and generating much income, but when she became old and infirm she accepted thousands of dollars in Social Security and Medicare benefits. Truly a pair of SHTF guns. Do us all a favor and spare us of hearing the same washed up issues from times long past…. . “To paraphrase from the NRA Firearms Sourcebook, most shoulder-fired firearms have a 13.5- to 14.5-inch length of pull. Skilling v. United States, 130 S.Ct. Less than 26 inches Vs. ATF was advised by the first manufacturer to submit an arm brace for classification that the intent of the arm brace was to facilitate one-handed firing of the AR15 pistol for those with limited strength or mobility due to a handicap, and to reduce bruising to the forearm when firing with one hand. This proposal will affect the gun industry, as well as citizens who own the weapons in question. Stay vigilant and stay up-to-date on this issue. Don’t blame the players blame the game man. Any person who intends to use a handgun stabilizing brace as a shoulder stock on a pistol (having a rifled barrel under 16 inches in length or a smooth bore firearm with a barrel … Third, the firearm cannot be designed to be fired from the shoulder. If you want your (our) constitutional rights restored like our founding fathers wrote, then all the red states need to secede and tell the socialists and crooks to gfo. The gears of gun control can by halted by the actions of the many, and the wrench thrown into the system is your voice. But ATF does not specify any “length of pull” that is presumptively acceptable. They said they had a letter, but they never posted it as far as I know. The only way to solve all this is for people to get it thru their thick skulls that the ATF has a life of its own, an agenda of its own. Speak for yourself….. we are ready….. and we are waiting….. c’mon MAN!!!!!! §§ 5801-5872, and made these important safety tools more readily available to those who need them. From what I can recall, KAK spoke with the ATF to get a better understanding of their stance on pistol braces. enuf…You slandered and libeled the POTUS and boasted about your guns and ammo purchases made possible off the backs of us who defeated hilliary rotten clintoon. Buttstock vs. Brace. ATF has taken the position that once a vertical foregrip has been added to a firearm, it is no longer designed to be fired when held in one hand, removing it from the definition of a pistol, even though ATF previously lost this argument before the Ninth Circuit in U.S. v. Fix, 4 Fed. Some things the ATF will use when considering if a given gun is a pistol with a stabilizing brace, or an unregistered SBR include… Length of pull. As part of that process, ATF plans to expedite processing of these applications, and ATF has been informed that the Attorney General plans retroactively to exempt such firearms from the collection of NFA taxes if they were made or acquired, prior to the publication of this notice, in good faith. It would be kind of comical were it not that companies can go out of business and individual gun owners can go to jail over such stuff. It all started with the Bump Stock fiasco, that I believe is still in litigation thanks to Gun Owners of America and FICP. The LoP is the distance from your trigger to where the brace (or otherwise, stock) meets your shoulder. She was certainly prophetic about the times we are in and entering. Our Second Amendment rights are under heavy attack and on the brink of extinction if a certain administration has their way. This determination, consistent with law, clarified that attachment of a pistol-affixed arm brace did not constitute the making of a Short Barreled Rifle (SBR) subject to registration requirements under the National Firearms Act (NFA), 26 U.S.C. Length of Pull. However, the letter does not offer any detailed guidance as to the specifics such as the calibers that make it a SBR, the specific length of pull, the weight, etc. UMP pistol arm brace, designed to fit the US made TMP receiver and any other pistol's that use the UMP style hinge. If the aim point when using the arm brace attachment results in an upward or downward trajectory that could not accurately hit a target, this may indicate the attachment was not designed as a stabilizing brace. A friend of mine in a slave state is collecting parts for two AR builds and he’s doing it across state lines with cash. The factors identified by the ATF for its possible use in classification include type, caliber, weight and length, how the gun is marketed, length of pull, sights and scopes, peripheral accessories mounted, and rear surface area of the brace, among others. With a brace, it can be as short as you want, but you can't exceed 13.5" because the ATF determined you're approaching stock territory, no matter what you want to call the attachment at the end of the buffer tube. The ATF is allowed to just free-lance and enforce any and all rules when it comes to firearms. What is astonishing is ATF has the prerogative, under ATF order 3310.4b, to admonish and have a person remove the … so does this mean that if we just take the brace off and replace it with some foam padding on the length of the buffer tube and then cap the end with a tennis or racquet ball or some similar piece of shock absorbing material we can then have whatever caliber and weight we want and a forward grip and a 1-6x scope and a light and a laser and a sling and 45 degree sights, You’re not a “realist” You came up with a lazy excuse of justifying your cowardice with “da times”. Its dumbass shittalk like that why POTG are going to lose one day. Don’t judge me. Peripheral Accessories. The agency (or rather, the agent) that obtained the sample of the Honey Badger asserted it had a LOP of 13.5 inches with the brace and therefore, was clearly designed to be fired from the shoulder according to that criteria, despite SB Tactical and Q making it clear the HB is a pistol. If a brace is of a length that makes it impractical to attach to the shooter’s wrist or forearm, then that may demonstrate that it is not designed as brace but rather for shoulder fire. The little bastard won’t climb over the fence so he does what he can to aggravate the dog. They know that…they don’t care! You’re a prime example of why we can’t have nice things. Docket ID: ATF-2020-0001 Objective Factors for Classifying Weapons with “Stabilizing Braces”. The ATF has come up with a long winded and seeming difficult to decipher set of so-called standards that will help them determine how they will arbitrarily enforce this new policy. ATF is now “informing” the public of other factors that it considers (and, allegedly, has historically considered; they just didn’t feel like telling anyone) when determining the validity of a braced pistol, such as choice of optic : and they ain’t Santa claus…. Don’t be such a racist! Different shooters have forearms of different length and thickness. One of the components that could be under consideration by the ATF is the “Length of Pull” of braced firearm. The method of attachment of the stabilizing brace, to include modified stock attachments, extended receiver extensions, and the use of spacers. Within that conversation, the agent mentioned a length of pull no longer than 13.5”. The notice uses the term “objective factors” many time throughout, but you also say, “No single factor or combination of factors is necessarily dispositive, and FATD examines each weapon holistically on a case-by-case basis.” This means that you will not use those “objective factors” objectively, but rather subjectively. FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT: Office of Regulatory Affairs, Enforcement Programs and Services, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, U.S. Department of Justice, 99 New York Ave. NE, Mail Stop 6N-518, Washington DC 20226; telephone: (202) 648-7070 (this is not a toll-free number). They have a shorter length of pull and most often have straps of some type so that the shooter can attach it to their arm and fire it one-handed. “Length of pull”—for lack of a better word regarding pistol braces—begins to enter a “gray area” above 13.5″. It appears what the ATF top hats are doing with silly braces shows their disdain for Americans owning firearms. If the overall length of the firearm is under 26 inches, it places the firearm in a category to be regulated by the NFA. The only time you ever see someone using it as a brace is to show that it’s a totally-legal-without-a-tax-stamp ‘pistol brace’ before promptly shouldering it. I would like to hear them try to justify Gun Control when Gun Control is an agenda rooted in racism and genocide. And that’s just what I told them in my comment: The ATF has not presented any “objective factors” to determine whether a pistol-braced firearm is a pistol or short-barreled rifle. (disclaimer: im NOT taking the atfs side here or caving in to them or anything of the sort-im just living in 2020 and so im a staunch realist and pretty much resigned to the fact that the beatings will continue until morale improves) Billionaire Kelly Loeffler, millionaire David Purdue know all about cheating the citizens in order to enrich themselves. See 26 U.S.C. I said the same thing about him blabbing but my comment has been in mod jail since this morning. If a brace is of a length that makes it impractical to attach to the shooter’s wrist or forearm, then that may demonstrate that it is not designed as brace but rather for shoulder fire. Aim Point. Telling them that they are a law enforcement agency, not Congress, so their rules are not law. If this passes, we could be looking at mass orchestrated attack on our rights. You know where you can go enuf, and if you don’t, ask Debbie. The basic gist of their conversation was that modifying a pistol brace with the intent to specifically shoulder the firearm classified it as an SBR. First of all the ATF has a long and bloody history, easily the worst of any USA government agency on home soil. I am sure there are ATF agents on these forums reading these replies. They’ve presented nominally objective factors. According to Gaetz’s letter, BATFE has begun enforcement of a standard that declares brace-equipped pistols with a length-of-pull of more than 13.5 inches are SBRs. It will just continue on and on unless we change something. Criminal laws that violate this requirement are said to be void for vagueness. The ATF considers three common firearm characteristics to classify a pistol. Your still speaking as if they want compliance. As of last week, Polymer80 was raided by the ATF and there has been at least one instance that the “Alphabet Bois” made a knock on someone’s home and seized their 80% lower. U.S. judge allows extradition of two men accused of aiding Ghosn escape, Hot Pistol Tips from the US Army Marksmanship Unit, 5 Steps for Building a Personal Shooting Range, 16 page rough draft copy of proposed rulemaking. Pistol Brace vs. Stock. Please note that the deadline for comments is January 4, 2021, meaning that they have only allowed all of 18 days for comments, not the usual 30 (or more). Scuttlebutt has it that a brace with a LOP greater than 13.5 inches becomes magically irksome in the eyes of the ATF. ATF was advised by the first manufacturer to submit an arm brace for classification that the intent of the arm brace was to facilitate one-handed firing of the AR15 pistol for those with limited strength or mobility due to a handicap, and to reduce bruising to the forearm when firing with one hand. Eg what weight? So here is the rundown. You should be in prison for Sedition and Anti-American Incompetence! That statement would appear to leave us precisely where we are now: at the mercy of a proven arbitrary and capricious federal agency bound to infringe upon the Second Amendment. First, the overall length of the gun must be 26 inches or less. Hey DEBBIE W. (Obviously a transgender weirdo)…. Fear not. “So, you’re saying Debbie W voted for Bathhouse Barry?”, That’s not Ms. Inacker, it’s a fuckwit troll impersonating her…, Seems like your kind of agency, enuf.♂️. Fits SBA3™/SBA4™ Pistol Stabilizing Braces. ATF’s claim is that it’s simply detailing in a clear, objective fashion the metrics by which it does, will, and has judged pistol braces. ATF Decisions on the Pistol Brace Vasquez explained, “The rubber tip rotated freely and had to be retained in place with a short length of cord. These are “REVOLVERS” with weights 4.5 lbs., 4.7 lbs., 5 lbs., 5.3 lbs. Your email address will not be published. The GCA does not define the term “redesign” and therefore ATF applies the common meaning. Again, the ATF doesn’t specify a weight, or which calibers would be unacceptable for a braced pistol. Sights and Scopes. Although, this is just a rough draft, it appears that this may be published within the next few weeks in the Federal Register. Within that conversation, the agent mentioned a length of pull no longer than 13.5”. That criteria includes: caliber, weight, length, design of brace, if it can be fired one handed, and what type of … I don’t seem to recall her ever stating that. Like most guns eventually. This arm brace is designed to fold and latch on the TMP platform and clears the ejection port. A SCOTUS ruling applying Strict Scrutiny, perhaps several such rulings, could be the solution. Though a strong President could fix it with decisive executive authority, none will. The contents of the document do not have the force and effect of law and are not meant to bind the public in any way. See, e.g. Some sources have said that the ATF expects your brace-equipped pistol to have a length of pull under 13.5 inches. The pistol braces acceptance will be based on a set of criteria by the ATF. First, the overall length of the gun must be 26 inches or less. Please keep the comment. They are making a list and checking it twice……. Appx. The ATF is allowing comments until Jan 4th of 2021 regarding the re-classification of Pistol Braces. Shooters looking to place a vertical foregrip on their AR pistol are okay to do so as long as the overall length of the pistol is greater than 26 inches. Follow the instructions for, Mail: Office of Regulatory Affairs, Enforcement Programs and Services, Bureau, Federal eRulemaking Portal: ATF recommends that you submit your comments to ATF via the Federal eRulemaking portal at www.regulations.gov and follow the instructions. 2020R–10. Ronald Reagan came close but stopped well short of meaningful action. . All while HIS ATF, being led by his guy, is taking steps against our rights. There are no concrete guidelines. The end. @Theresa Inacker So, you’re saying Debbie W voted for Bathhouse Barry? In addition to defining objective factors you must also define an objective process of using those factors in your determinations. From what I can recall, KAK spoke with the ATF to get a better understanding of their stance on pistol braces. The Ruby Ridge and Waco Raids being only the best known to people today. I recently started to review guns, gun accessories, and other gun related items on YouTube. Also something to the effect of, by the way law enforcement agencies should focus on stopping crime, not creating it…. Merry Christmas to gun owners! This is a measurement for rifles and shotguns used to accommodate shooters of different sizes. Have you not figured it out yet? Another process may include the following options: registering the firearm in compliance with the NFA (described above), permanently removing the stabilizing brace from the firearm and disposing of it, replacing the barrel of the firearm (16” or greater for a rifle, or 18” or greater for a shotgun), surrendering the firearm to ATF, or destroying the firearm. As long as you don’t red Loctite the set screw in place, ATF considers it to be “temporarily placed” and “perfectly okay to shoulder.” (He didn’t beat around the bush on this topic.) IMO…This brace nitpicking is a sign of a mental illness coming from people with waaaay too much money and free time on their hands. “The objective design features ATF considers in determining whether a weapon with an attached ‘‘stabilizing brace’’ has been ‘‘designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder’’ include, but are not limited to:”. By requiring fair notice of what is punishable and what is not, vagueness doctrine also helps prevent arbitrary enforcement of the laws. I’ve about had it with hearing your constant BS about nazi’s and the KKK….. It’s like YOU’RE STUCK IN THE 80’s or something….. Pliny the Elder, considered the author of the first encyclopedia, thought there was a tribe in Africa with no heads – with their eyes and mouths in their chests. This whole pistol brace thing would concern me, but the disingenuous nature of the whole ‘controversy’ just makes me roll my eyes. The ATF’s Firearms Technology Industry Services Branch or FTISB holds that the standard length of pull on long guns is 13.5 to 14.5 inches, which – as it happens – is … You forget they’ll shoot your Pomeranian first because ‘deadly attack dog’…, “I’ll be telling them to fcuk off, again.”. Any President could end this abuse. Congress, so their rules are they getting rid of as per Pres, 5.3 lbs with. 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